Jun 14 • 38M

Ryan Darani: I’ve Made £40K/M freelancing full-time and Still Consider Going Back To 9-5!

In this months podcast I talk with Ryan Darani who's been freelancing full-time for the past two years. We talk UK vs US SEO salary and how mental health plays a role in freelancing.

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Each month Nick LeRoy interviews a freelance consultant about their experience generating over six figures in annual income.
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Introducing Ryan Darani

Ryan Darani, recovering agency SEO turned freelance SEO joins us today to discuss his career.

In today’s podcast, we talk with Ryan who has gone from making < £40K/M a year to £40K/M per month. We spend time discussing the discrepancy between UK and US SEO salaries and how mental health plays a significant role in a freelancer’s journey.

Individuals that Ryan recommends following:

How to connect with Ryan Darani

Check out Ryan’s SEO consulting website

Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn

Connect with Ryan on Twitter


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If you are interested in being a future SEO Freelancer podcast guest? Please email me directly at nick@nickleroy.com


Podcast Transcription

Nick LeRoy  00:02

Hey, Ryan, how's it going?

Ryan Darani  00:32

Hey, Nick is going good, man. I'm happy to be here. How are you?

Nick LeRoy  00:35

Yeah, thank you so much for joining us on The SEO Freelancer very excited to talk to you.

Ryan Darani  00:41

I'm really, really excited.

Nick LeRoy  00:42

So for everyone listening here this month, we're talking to Ryan Darani. And he is roughly making 40,000 pounds a month freelancing full time. But the twist is, he's still considering going back to nine to five. So I'm super excited to talk to him about this. I want to understand you know, what's going really well, you know, what's not going well? And why somebody who's having so much success would still think it's amazing, you know, to potentially go back to the nine to five world. So, again, Ryan, thanks for joining. Do you mind for the audience here just giving us a little bit of an introduction? Yeah, who are you? What do you do? How long have you been doing SEO?

Ryan Darani  01:23

Yeah, sure. So for those of you who don't know me, which is probably everyone, my name is Ryan Darani, I've been doing SEO now for close to 10 years in some description. So I've kind of gone through the mill. So I started off in house at an insurance company some time ago. And then I transitioned into agency life where I started off at kind of like a SEO lead level, working with smaller budgets, smaller companies. And that gradually progressed, and I started to run campaigns for some of the bigger kind of international brands, looking at kind of six figure per month budgets for a couple of years, which kind of gave me the all round perspective behind SEO campaigns and bigger budget campaigns. And for the last two years, I've been well, just short of two years, actually, I've been running my own solo consultancy, and it's been a whirlwind. And I'm really happy to kind of dig into that with you guys today and kind of share my experience with it.

Nick LeRoy  02:30

That's super exciting. So I think the one question that everybody loves from this podcast so far is I always ask everybody how they started their career. So I appreciate that you volunteer that in house position, you know, in insurance, but the magical question, if you don't mind sharing, what was your first salary?

Ryan Darani  02:48

Or how much first salary? So my first at the Insurance Committee was the insurance company. So it was 32,000 pounds. Okay.

Nick LeRoy  03:00

And so just for comparison, people have heard I made $32,000 back about 2008/9. For me, I guess, a couple of years later for you. Yeah. But if we were to assume the, what do they say? Just the comparison between a pound and dollar? You're probably making just a little bit more than I was?

Ryan Darani  03:23

Just a little bit I think maybe it was maybe it'd be 37/38?

Nick LeRoy  03:27

Sure, obviously, you know, rolling in the dough, right.

Ryan Darani  03:30

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Ready to the eyes. Yeah.

Nick LeRoy  03:35

It's not that exciting, though. I don't know at least when you're going through school and you graduate. I still remember to this day, my very first paycheck from this job was $1,111. And change. And I spent it actually on a big screen TV, because somebody had told me once that you should spend your very first paycheck because it's the richest you feel like you'll ever be, and with the least amount of responsibility.

Ryan Darani  04:01

That's, you know what, that's entirely true. Same for me, like my first my first ever pay was, I was 18 or 17. And the first month's wage I ever received, I think was about 800 pound. So like, not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, but at 18 years old, I was so excited. I'm like, I can put petrol in my car, I could go out to eat like it was so cool

Nick LeRoy  04:27

back then. But what's better than you know, prior to my full time experience, you know, basically working minimum wage where I was trying to be able to get enough money to see the movies and like you said they're all a gasoline car. Yeah. Yeah. So walk us so you walked us through a little bit your your career, but can you tell us a little bit more about the last full time job you had if you feel comfortable? You know what the difference was in salary from when you had started and when you had left? And then just tell us maybe a little bit more about what encouraged you to go freelance? Yeah,

Ryan Darani  05:05

sure. Yeah. So it's actually a quite a quite an unusual journey for me. So the insurance company I started at where I had little to no experience, I kind of like to be honest, I kind of talked my way into that job. Like I had read a lot about SEO, but I had never done anything in practice. And I wrangled my way into that job somehow. But when I joined the agency at that point, I had two years under my belt. And I had ranked a couple of local sites by myself. But to actually join that agency, because I wanted the experience and to work with these different clients, I actually took a pay cut. So I joined the agency, which was my last time, my last full time role. And my salary, if I remember was 28. So I joined at 28,000. So I took a 4000 pound pay cut to join. And that was genuinely because I loved the agency that I wanted to go and work for. And I was willing to take the pay cut to do that. And the journey from that point was, you know, I learned so much so fast in kind of six months. And again, I'll be super honest, like the pay, jump after that six month period wasn't high. It took me to Italy to 33,000 pound, and I was a senior SEO lead at that point managing like millions of pounds of budget. So yeah, that that transition, or that progression kind of seems backward in that sense financially. But I think what kind of prompted me to go freelance from that point is obviously financially, I was in a position where I just knew I was never going to earn the kind of money that I wanted to. And I had learned so much and had, you know, a few successes under my belt that I felt comfortable and confident enough to go out and try doing it myself.

Nick LeRoy  07:09

Wow, that's really impressive. There's two things that I want to cover here. So one, you not only took a pay cut, but when you went freelance, you are now making what you did annually per month, your ad is crazy. And congratulations, that's a fantastic piece. But what I want to spend more time talking about is an issue, I feel like the SEO industry kind of tiptoes around. So we started, like you said, very similar, you've made more than I did with the 32,000 pounds versus $32,000. But now we look at individuals with your level of experience. And I've seen this many times, you know, managers, directors, they're making maybe 50,000 pounds, where that role could be worth anywhere from say 75 to $150,000. Sorry, in the US. I'd love to hear from you. What do you think, contributes to this discrepancy in pay between the US and the UK? So?

Ryan Darani  08:19

Yeah, I think it's, it's a very unusual one, I think, like we had kind of spoken about the health care is probably a big contributing factor. But my genuine experience, and this is just, you know, personal opinion, not not a factor or anything. But I've worked with both US companies and UK companies. And there are only a very select few companies within the UK that really get the kind of at least in my experience that really understands how SEO works. And I feel like the US in general are ahead of us, in the sense of they understand the kind of art and the skill set that goes into it a little bit more. They definitely respect experience a little bit more over in the States. I from my from my experience. And like you said, you know, I think at an agency, in particular, a manager role, you're probably looking at less than 40,000 45,000 pounds. Again, it's been a couple years since I've been in an agency. So that might have gone up a little bit now. But compared to some of the job roles I'm seeing in the US where like managers or directors or even seniors are getting, like you said 75 to 100. I, I genuinely believe that the US are just a little more ahead of us in that sense. And the UK don't, at least the consultants that I've spoken with that have such a good skill set, don't value themselves enough to push for a bigger salary,

Nick LeRoy  09:51

sir, no, and that makes perfect sense. I think one thing in hearing that if they don't, barely potentially value and again There's just more personal thoughts here. Do you think does this transfer into how much you believe agencies are charging their clients? So coming from tenure agency career on my side, I've seen everything from your standard $2,000 a month for more of a small business to 2030. I even know someone who has a client, that's $100,000 plus a month. Do you think is there a gap in what is being charged in the UK for SEO versus the United States? And that is how it kind of trickled down to pay? Or what's your thought on that?

Ryan Darani  10:44

That's a very good, very good question. Likewise, I've, you know, I can speak from experience that the some of the budgets that clients are willing to kind of invest in SEO, especially at kind of enterprise level in the UK, is significant. You know, I've seen budgets 1020 30 100,000 Plus. But that does not translate into salary. So I think the profit margin in the UK might be slightly higher from an agency model perspective. Now, that's obviously not everybody, I'm sure there are agencies that have paid or do pay their staff very well. But from my experience, the budget definitely doesn't reflect in people's salaries. And that is from kind of junior level right through to managerial level. So yeah, it's a very, it's a very interesting one. I don't know if that's just because cost of living where where I am, is quite low. Versus bigger cities like London, Manchester, Liverpool are quite expensive to live in. So I don't know it's a it's a peculiar one. I definitely think some UK companies do invest in the radio quite heavily and agencies do benefit from that. I just think, and this is, I mean, I've spoken to a lot of agency owners in the UK, people are jumping from agency to agency right now, because of the potential of earning more money upfront. I don't know if that's similar to us.

Nick LeRoy  12:16

Yeah. So you literally just nailed the last question I was gonna say is like, in the US here, it's very common to Job hop, you know, I'll just arbitrarily say, every two years, and a lot of people are doing that, because you can either get 234 percent cost of living increases to your salary, or you can leave and potentially get 10%. Yeah, that's probably one of my biggest regrets. You know, looking back at my agency careers, I was always so loyal to the company to a fault, where, you know, I could have easily made more, you know, if I had moved, but, you know, it's interesting, I kind of had thought maybe that wasn't the instance, in the UK. But sounds like that is very similar.

Ryan Darani  13:05

I think I definitely think so. Now, I think this kind of COVID has kind of prompted an explosion in PR, SEO kind of fields. And we've liked the rise of people that are going freelance and earning decent money, you know, it compact in comparison to what they could earn as a full time employee has maybe done two things, one is helped people understand that, you know, there is more out there for them for them to go and achieve. And to if they are considering, you know, leaving an agency or an in house position that there is the demand out there, and people will invest in them.

Nick LeRoy  13:44

That makes a lot of sense. And the one thing I'll just add on and we'll jump on to our next topic is I talked to quite a few people who are interested in the idea of freelancing, and one of the first conversations I have with them is, you need to kind of understand the amount of effort and success you'll have to make up for that salary. From if you're in the UK, or even take my first salary, making up 30 to 40, maybe even $50,000 is a lot easier, that could be taking 123 clients as a freelancer and making more than you ever had before. But what's interesting is I would almost be a bigger advocate for anybody who's considering freelancing over in the UK or let's just say not the US, because if you truly have 10 years of experience, and you're making the equivalent on the high end of 50 grand if you have the ability to sell and communicate I'm gonna go on the record and say like I can almost guarantee that you're gonna make more than you are currently.

Ryan Darani  14:53

At you know what, I will back you on that Nick 100%

Nick LeRoy  14:58

that very interesting, so We'll move on to a different topic here. But for anybody who's listening, please feel free to comment on the Seo freelancer.com. Or tag Ryan and myself on Twitter, a topic that we don't people talk about it, but I swear we only scratched the surface. So I want to hear more about what people say. Yeah, for sure. So right, this is a really good segue. And I think I know the answer to this. But you know, so you are working at the agency, you have the experience, you're obviously good at what you're doing. But what was it that just kind of made you say, I'm gonna do this, I'm going freelance full time, I'm done. You know, everything you said you enjoyed and loved about agency life, I'm done. I gotta do this myself.

Ryan Darani  15:46

Yeah, like, I think the truth of the truth of the matter is, is that when I first started out in SEO, I loved it, I was obsessed with it. And that was the case for, you know, the first year at the agency, but agency life for for anybody who hasn't been in this world or been in that world before, it can get very hectic and very overwhelming. And you get to a certain stage where you just feel like you're part of a part of it, like a conveyor belt. So you, you get assigned a task or something you have to deliver for the client, and then you pass it on. And there was never this sense of like, I kind of lost the sense of fulfillment and purpose in my role. And I became friends with Craig Campbell. You know, awesome, awesome, dude. And I went up to see him we met for the first time, he kind of showed me this, you know, the law of being your own boss, and what it does for you. And I had kind of toyed with the idea for two years, and never had the balls to do it. And it's the truth of the matter is, if you're, if you're skilled, and you've got experience, and you make a leap, and you want to become a freelancer, what's the worst that can happen that, like, you go back and get another job, right. And I finally understood that to be the truth. And I was like, if this doesn't work, so what I'll go back to get another job, I'll try again in six months. But at least I gave it a shot.

Nick LeRoy  17:22

And I think that's one of the big benefits to freelancing in the search space, you know, whether it be paid or you know, let's just call it digital as a whole. I think when people think of entrepreneurship, you know, they think of the amount of money that it takes up front and time and SEO, specifically, I'll speak to kind of what you and I do. It's a lot of sweat equity. And I've always joked, I even told my wife when I made the decision. And when we made the decision together is like, oh, for me, you know, if freelancing doesn't work, I have to go find another six figure, agency job, like, you know, life is so hard. And I think what I mean from that is like, I don't mean to be put upon or, you know, I'm grateful for the opportunity, but there's very little reason to not give it a shot, if it's something you're interested in. So I just completely understand what you're saying and, and why you would want to do it. And I'll even give you kudos, because you say you didn't know that you didn't think you'd have the guts to do it. I made every excuse in the book, I had to get literally fired during COVID to be able to finally put my foot down and say, I'm John, I'm gonna I can almost guarantee you and I am embarrassed to say this that had I not gotten fired. I might have to be in a chair somewhere right now. So kudos to you.

Ryan Darani  18:50

Likewise, man, we both made the jump. And I think we both saw the other side of what success look like for sure.

Nick LeRoy  18:56

But I think this is a really good segue again, so we just talked about how, especially in the UK, the nine to five obviously had benefits, probably not making so much. But you still are kind of a Lord you. You still think about it. You know, you you and I have talked offline. We talked a little bit before this. And you're even willing to talk about now but why would you want to go back nine to five you can make your salary in one month. You know, you're your own boss. I feel like you know, a lot of people including myself, we sit there and say it's like I've never gone back. I'm not working for the man. Yeah, so walk us through that a little bit. Like I want to hear a little bit more what it is about nine to five that isn't leaving your mind. You know, like a lot of freelancers hope.

Ryan Darani  19:45

Yeah, it's it's kind of counterintuitive or a little bit weird to be in that mind space, especially, you know, from where I was to where I am now. And genuinely and I know this is gonna sound kind of like kinda, I don't know, maybe like a humble brag or something like, it's definitely not meant in this way. But the money side of things initially when I wanted to when I started out, freelancing was like the sole motivator, I wanted to earn money, I wanted to earn X amount, and I thought it would change my life forever. And there is a point where the money stops being such such a big deal. And it's more about your kind of quality of life, your headspace your ability to switch off. And, you know, I think I wouldn't ever go back to, if I'm honest, I would never go back to an agency environment. But what I would consider is falling in love with a brand and helping that brand become, you know, a giant in the space. And I think it would take a fantastic brand for me to ever consider doing that. But the, if it was ever to present itself, I would definitely take that opportunity, even if it meant I was making, you know, a fraction of what I am now. Because I've kind of matured past the point of I say, that's probably not entirely true, because I still chase more money and more clients now. But I've kind of matured in a place where I'm happy to live comfortably, and love what I do, and also work for somebody else. But I think I might be wrong. But because of the places is probably the same for you the place where we are in our careers as freelancers provide us with a very good platform to not necessarily work for somebody, but work with somebody in a brand. Absolutely.

Nick LeRoy  21:47

And I think you nailed it. You know, I came in very hard. I know even when you and I talked offline, I was like, why would you even do this is gone so great. But I think you honestly nailed it. Like, one of the biggest benefits of freelancing, again, I'll speak on my experience is I don't feel like I necessarily come in as a contractor. Because I take projects on where I feel like I get to be a legitimate partner. And if you aren't valuing me at a similar level or role that you're in, then we probably aren't working well. But so to your point, maybe it's less about truly going back. And I'm Eric quoting here, do the nine to five, but a brand that you can fall in love with, potentially build. And I will add, because I do personally like to chase the money. But if you could even get equity, like that, too, I can definitely see why that could be really appealing. Because one thing that I'm trying to do with the SEO Freelancer here is give a little bit more of a well rounded view to freelancing. Because I think it's very exciting, similar to how we kicked off this conversation, you know, making 40,000 pounds a month, when people you know, with 10 years of experience, they're making 40,000 pounds a year. You know, that's the exciting part. But what people don't always talk about are the stressors of freelancing to be able to make 40,000 pounds or however much it's just replacing it with whichever, you know, works for you. It requires managing your clients and setting expectations and turnover, and doing your taxes. And if you're in the US the health insurance, which by the way I spent $18,000 A year paying for. So I'm ranting now, but I want to give you an opportunity, right? Like walk us through a little bit more like what do you think you'd get a little bit of a reprieve from? If you were to go back to the nine to five?

Ryan Darani  23:50

is a excellent, excellent question. And my it's an unusual one. So when you like I said it at an agency you're balancing a lot of things you're being pushed from pillar to post you've got 10 different industries that you're managing at any one time and you kind of have to It sounds easy to people that don't work in this line of work that don't do SEO or anything digital marketing related it's really difficult or mentally taxing to jump from you know finance into retail into I don't know what cannabis or whatever you've got all kinds of and they're all different clients all different personalities, all different budgets spends. So you have to You're all day kind of balanced in between a bunch of different people and, and stresses and levels of input. So when I think about our fight, you know if I could work on one brand and just be in love with it, and this is my sole focus, and I can execute on it exactly how I want to like the reprieve for Mi is to be honest mental headspace. Like, I haven't got to think about a million different things in a different in a million different industries, I can think about one thing and focus my attention on it. And kind of get back to that point where you're, you know, completely engrossed in what you do day in day out. And you can focus on it all of the time.

Nick LeRoy  25:23

I really like that, as everyone is our heard, and I was very vocal to you, Ryan, I came into this, I was like, What are you thinking? What are you doing? He was freelancers, we got to stick together. But I will admit, I'll take a step back and say, everything that you said, is exactly why I may consider a role in house as well. You know, I don't really see it happening anytime soon. But I think first and foremost, you and I both agree, if there's ever a day where the money does dry off, or something does happen, again, beyond the fall back into a role like that, where you could fall in love with a brand and have the support of a larger company would be great. But I think all the juggling, there's just so much juggling when it comes to freelance life. And you and I were talking offline to is it's actually really interesting to hear that you agree with me because I said, I feel like I'm actually the most stressed out when I have the least amount of deliverable. Whereas when I'm, you know, constantly going, and it's checkboxes and checklists and invoicing and all that y'all don't have time to be stressed out.

Ryan Darani  26:34

Yeah, that's, that's so so true. Like when you have those moments of, quote, unquote, peace, it's normally when you start to overthink every little part of your job. So you know, I don't know how you feel your time when you run into that. My issue is when I have these kind of down periods, as I look like you said, I look for stuff to do, like, should I be doing this? am I providing value to the clients by not doing, you know, the extra eight hours today when everything's complete already? So I think it's definitely a balancing act, you have to really understand your value at a top level. And if you start to question that you will drive yourself and mean, you have spoken about this, you will drive yourself insane, worrying if you are doing the right thing.

Nick LeRoy  27:22

Very true to what you're saying, you know, what do you do with that time, and I'm either doing exactly what you said, it's like you're nitpicking these sites and trying to help out, you know, we're giving just a little bit extra to the client, which isn't adding significant value. So that's where I am spending more time on branding and personal projects, do things like this, there's podcasts, you know, this is fun, I enjoy meeting like minded individuals, I like helping people that are on the edge of whether they should freelance or not. It's productive time that otherwise I just kind of sitting in that headspace and who knows what I'd be doing.

Ryan Darani  28:00

Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you started this. I think it's an awesome, awesome platform and an awesome idea. So big thanks to you, Nick for this.

Nick LeRoy  28:10

So with that said, so now we talked a little bit about freelancing is awesome. But maybe there'll be a day where I'm not freelancing. So we're kind of doing that jumping back and forth. Ryan, what advice would you give to somebody, regardless of their in the UK, or the United States, wherever, if they wanted to freelance? What advice would you give them?

Ryan Darani  28:39

My biggest piece of advice is, if you are one of those people that genuinely has always wanted to try it, or you've always wanted to kind of be your own Boss in any aspect of work, whether that's SEO, digital marketing, it could be that you want to just, you know, be a content writer full time or you know, whatever it might be. If you think about it enough, and it doesn't go away, I highly recommend that you do it. But I would never put myself in a position where it has too much risk. So by that, I mean, if you have the freedom or the luxury of a nine to five job that's paying you every single month, and you're able to, you know from seven until 11 At night, work on your network, work on your personal brand, work on a side project, and kind of get a feel for what it's going to be like if you were to ever do this full time. That would be the best route I would recommend because you kind of ease that stress of I'm getting a salary one minute and then the next minute I have nothing. And I've also not spent the time building up to this point. So I highly highly recommend you do that. First have the have the framework laid out by three months, six months, it doesn't matter. There's no rush, you've got time. After that six months, and you've built up some some income from your side projects and you feel comfortable, then take that leap. You'll be in a much clearer headspace at that point.

Nick LeRoy  30:17

I absolutely love that advice. Because I can tell you, as I've been very vocal about, I got fired. And I didn't have a whole ton of, you know, backup money or a slush fund, you know, it just, I always had thought, you know, I'm a high performer, there's no reason, you know, SEO is a very progressive, forward thinking marketing initiative. There's no way I'm gonna lose my job. I'm off to I say something stupid, which I guess is always a risk with me. But I thought that'd be, you know, the case. So I started out with kind of a, I cannot fail mentality. But what that led to was taking on projects that I shouldn't have things that weren't paying very well, you know, probably got a little bit bullied by some clients. And I think everything you just said, not only building a backup, you know, whether it's literally cash in the bank, or if you have another, you know, you have your nine to five job. Every everything right, and that is so perfect. And, you know, I would agree with them. 100%. on that? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one thing we didn't talk about was, did you create a slush fund? You doing freelance? You're part time in addition to your full time role?

Ryan Darani  31:42

Yeah, so funnily enough, I didn't, when I first started doing kind of freelance projects, they weren't SEO specific. So they were kind of I would do a web build for 700 pounds, and try and tack on SEO as like a, you get this as well. So I kind of did that for a little while, like, it was probably a year and I'm going to be frank, I'm a I'm a terrible, terrible web designer. So like, it just doesn't, I just don't connect with it. And but anyway, it allowed me to have, you know, a little bit of a safety net in the bank, so that if anything did go wrong, or I didn't get any work in the first three, three ish months, I was kind of covered for my bills. But kind of, you know, luckily, and thankfully, I within the first 45 days was able to, you know, not need that extra cash.

Nick LeRoy  32:42

Congratulations. And that's awesome. I think we hear a lot of horror stories of people, you know, struggling. And but when you figure it out, and you know what you're doing, and you're good at what you're doing. It just shows how incredibly valuable this skill set is.

Ryan Darani  32:58

Yeah, Yep, absolutely. Yeah.

Nick LeRoy  33:01

So, Ryan, you already gave us some really good advice for people that want to potentially start freelancing, whether it be full time or part time? Do you have any particular resources, books, individuals that you would recommend that people check out or follow?

Ryan Darani  33:18

Yes, I do. I think you are an immediate choice. I was you know, I was I'm absolutely suit like suit like fanboying out a little bit when we finally got to speak. If I'm super honest, so proud of I think there's a couple of a couple of other really good people in the industry that I enjoy following. Steve Toth is one of them. Later, solace, there's another. Who else Eli Schwartz, who is I'm a big fan of as well think those are, it's really difficult. There's probably like 100 that I can I can remember if I looked at my Twitter, but off the top of my head, those are the guys that I was looking at. When I wanted to make this jump. Course wise and book wise, I read product led SEO, which is great. Course wise, I've done them all. So affiliate hacker income school, etc, etc. So I can't really give a super positive or confident recommendation to these courses just yet. But for anybody that is kind of looking to dig into this, what I would I would recommend if you've already got a skill set in SEO, or whatever the skill set is that you have, I would look into the kind of admin and legal aspects of being a freelancer. So handling contracts, handling, personal income, your taxes, all of this kind of stuff you have to know and understand if you can get a wrap on that before you You kind of get into this into this game, you'll be 100 steps ahead of what I was when I started.

Nick LeRoy  35:07

Right? Again, that was a theme here where I love what you're saying. But you're so right, being able to optimize the title tag and build a link and submit a sitemap, you know, that's one skill set. But to be able to run a business, a lot of people have never had to do that. So just doubling down on what he said, Yeah, I love the idea of talking to an accountant, make sure you get your books in order, because that probably is one of my constant stresses. Because I'm not an expert in that field. I can migrate the largest of largest websites. But you want me to balance my business book.

Ryan Darani  35:47

I hate you, man. It's such a pain. I hear you're on that one.

Nick LeRoy  35:51

All right. Thank you so much for your time today. This is an amazing conversation. For anybody who's listening today, what is the best way for them to be able to connect with you?

Ryan Darani  36:03

The best way to get a hold of me is either LinkedIn or Twitter. So my Twitter handle is search for Ryan. And my LinkedIn. If you just search for Ryan to Ronnie, you should be hopefully there's no one else with my name. I'm not sure there is it's an unusual last name. So if you search for Ryan, Ernie, I'm on LinkedIn. And you know, Nick, I have to say it's been absolutely awesome speaking to you today. I'm so glad we got to do this. And yeah, thanks again. Dude. I appreciate it.

Nick LeRoy  36:32

Yes, thank you. And I will put all those links as well as a link to his homepage as well in the notes below. But Brian, again, thank you so much. Appreciate it. And I'll see everybody else later. Thanks. Take

Ryan Darani 36:46

Take care.